There is no 'quick fix' when it comes to ED&I in the tech industry - or any industry for that matter - and we're thankful for that.  We don't want senior managers to cut corners or rush processes when it comes to equality and equity and neither should they. Hannah Grinsted beautifully sums this up in this week's Women Rock interview with Women Rock founder Alicia Teagle. Hannah's insight into ED&I is incredible, stemming from her HR experience in many different industries and her volunteer work with Pregnant Then Screwed who exist to reduce the penalties women face when they become mothers. This interview is a must-read for start-ups, scale-ups and leading brands alike who want to take a real look at their culture and ask the tricky questions about what they can do better.  Read on to have your mind blown and expanded at the same time!  I AM A BELIEVER THAT TO IMPROVE ED&I WITHIN AN ORG IT NEEDS TO COME FROM MANAGEMENT, BUT 9 TIMES OUT OF 10 IT FALLS TO THE PEOPLE OR HR TEAM – MOST OF WHOM ARE WOMEN. BUT IT’S A JOINT EFFORT, RIGHT? YOU HAVE WORKED IN HR, PEOPLE AND CULTURE ROLES FOR A WHILE AND I’M SURE YOU HAVE SEEN A LOT, WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE AND HOW DID YOU OVERCOME IT?  The biggest challenge I have faced has been to call out the day-to-day actions of a Senior Leadership team. People often like the idea of diversity but struggle with it if it means making them change the way they do things or the status quo. Working in high-growth start-ups means they want to move quickly, which means relying on normal habits and patterns of behaviour. Asking leaders to step back and do things differently can feel like you’re putting up blockers, stopping them from doing things which they feel are harmless. To really create something different you must proactively strive for it, it doesn’t just happen, and the small cumulative behaviours can count for more than the big extravagant ones. Confronting that can feel uncomfortable. Overcoming this means you must have high-trust relationships and a culture of feedback for this to work. But also, I’m more ruthless in not working with people who don’t want to create change, even if they say they do. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR CURRENT THINKING ABOUT DIVERSITY, AND HOW HAS YOUR THINKING CHANGED OVER TIME? There has historically been a lot of individualism, if you try hard enough, ask for something in the right way, and present yourself in the right way then you’ll ‘make it’. For women’s advancement this has been showcased through the ‘Lean In’ movement. I’ve been learning a lot more about the deep and unseen systems, beliefs and structures that are at play and have a huge impact. For a long time, people thought that women didn’t ask for pay rises as often, which is why they didn’t get them. But recent research has shown that women ask for a pay rise just as often as men but are 25% less likely to get one. It’s lit an even brighter flame in my passion for organisation and culture design. How we consciously create our businesses, ways of working and frameworks for decision-making can create real change. WHAT KINDS OF EXPERIENCES HAVE YOU HAD IN RELATING WITH PEOPLE WHOSE BACKGROUNDS ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOUR OWN? Working in different industries has given me exposure to so many different people and backgrounds, across financial services, retail, manufacturing, construction, tech, charities, healthcare etc. For me, the most important thing is to ask questions to seek to understand. So many people ask questions to confirm what they think, rather than challenge assumptions they already held. And diversify the information you consume! I actively choose to read, follow, and engage with people and creators who are women, neurodivergent, disabled, black and other minority groups. CAN YOU TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR VOLUNTEER WORK WITH PREGNANT THEN SCREWED?  PTS are an absolute force! They exist to create radical change to reduce the penalties women face when they become mothers. It’s something that I feel so passionately about. I’ve found that my career has materially changed since having my 2 daughters, it’s impacted people’s perception of my ability and the opportunities I’ve had. I’ve been able to confidentially navigate this because I know my rights, from working in HR. Not everyone has this knowledge, or access to it in their immediate circles. So, I volunteer for PTS on their helpline for pregnant women and mothers every week. I can give women the knowledge and confidence to challenge the treatment they are facing at work, which feels awesome. WE SPOKE ABOUT FINDING YOUR TRIBE AND YOU HAVE FOUND THAT IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE BUT NOW LOOKING TO FIND IT IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL LIFE TOO. ANY ADVICE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO FIND THEIR TRIBE?  Something I’m still working on! The best connections I’ve made with like-minded people have been connecting without an immediate purpose or ask, and being my authentic self. Networking based on interests and offering generously with your time and knowledge. The more we build others up, the more they build us. I very much believe in community over competition, sharing ideas, passing on work to others and creating goodwill, goes a long way. Pretty much all my work comes from within my network, not cold calling, or cold reach outs. Having a tribe and community is so important, for building my work but also in bringing joy to my work.    I FOUND IT FASCINATING TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE PENSION GAP, AND HOW 70% OF BRITAIN’S HOMELESS ARE WOMEN. YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF POLICES WAS SO INSIGHTFUL AND WE DIDN’T GET ENOUGH TIME TO SPEAK ABOUT IT. I FEEL LIKE WE ALL NEED TO HEAR THIS, PLEASE CAN YOU TELL ME A BIT MORE ABOUT THIS?  There is a huge economic gap between men and women, but most conversations don’t go any further than talking about the gender pay gap. But the inequality between men and women is so much more complex than that. There are pervasive myths and historical legislation built from that which influence us throughout our lives - like women aren’t good with money and were grouped with those who are mentally unwell or infants in terms of their ability to do taxes. In fact, it’s only become possible for married women in Jersey to do their own Tax returns in 2022 (blows my mind!). And historically women were unable to own property because legally they were classed as property. Even today, 80% of land globally is owned by men. I SPOKE TO A START-UP LAST WEEK AND I ASKED THEM ‘WHAT’S YOUR CULTURE LIKE’ THEY ARE 3 WHITE GUYS AND THEY SAID, ‘WE DON’T HAVE ONE’ – HOW DO START-UPS PRIMARILY CREATE A CULTURE?  I’d start off by saying, every company has a culture. If you don’t notice it, it’s probably because it feels very normal and comfortable for you. Culture is just the accumulation of behaviours that people show day to day. If you want to start looking at your culture, ask your team who epitomises ‘Company Name’. Then ask them to describe what they do. You’ll start to find behaviours in there that shape your culture. If you want to shift your culture, or consciously maintain it when you’re scaling then think about your company values and what behaviours would live this. Find flash points in an employee’s experience at work and bring these to life. WHAT ARE YOU READING AT THE MOMENT?  I’m fascinated by financial services and economics because, like it or not, we’re all impacted by money, and money has the potential to be such a force for radical good. So, I’m reading: The Cost of Sexism, by Linda Scott. I’d also recommend the book Why Women are Poorer than Men, by Annabelle Williams. But next on my list is Unwell Women by Elinor Cleghorn. Healthcare and medicine is another area that society needs to address with issues like the gender pain gap, where on average women wait over 30% longer than men to be given pain relief when in A&E presenting with the same issue. Also, the fact that black women are 4 times as likely to die in childbirth than white women. IF YOU WERE A SONG WHAT WOULD THAT BE?  I think this is the hardest question you’ve asked me! I’ve been going through my playlists for days trying to find the right song. I don’t think it exists… So here are a couple: Fuel – Metallica – It sounds how I feel when thinking about feminism and dismantling the systems and beliefs that enable poorer outcomes for women and minority groups. Frontier Psychiatrist – The Avalanches – Because I think people find it far-fetched when I start talking about some of the things I’ve learned. The Middle – Jimmy Eat World – To keep going with setting up my business, it’s not as easy but it allows me to be me and do things, I feel passionate about. It just takes some time. AND TO END ON DO YOU HAVE A FAVOURITE QUOTE OR MANTRA TO LIVE BY? "The second-best time is now." The full quote is: "The best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago, the second-best time is now." It gives me hope for the actions of today when it comes to changing some of those deep-seated systems, which won’t change overnight. It’s now looking like it will be 300 years until we achieve pay equality (longer if you’re not white), but the actions of today will create change. And, I can be a terrible procrastinator! So, reminding myself to be kind, okay maybe I should have done it yesterday, but the second best time is now. Thanks, Hannah - you rock! Interview by Alicia Teagle

When it comes to ED&I in the tech space, companies need to start putting their money where their mouth is. For too long, the burden of fixing equality in the workspace has been on the underrepresented folk that need support, when the responsibility lies with the companies and brands that claim they want to be part of the solution, rather the problem. Enter 'The Code To Change', a diversity and inclusion organisation set up to empower, mentor and support women looking to get into the tech space - either at the beginning of their career or after a breakaway or looking for a career change. The Code to Change founder and experienced international NGO leader-activist Iffat Rose Gill shares her story about how this amazing organisation came about and what we can do, right now, to diversify this industry once and for all.  THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. WE’RE REALLY INTERESTED TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE CODE TO CHANGE. COULD YOU TELL US MORE ABOUT IT AND WHAT INSPIRED YOU? Sure! First of all, thank you for inviting me. So, The Code to Change is a diversity and inclusion organisation. We started off as a boot camp in 2015 because of a problem that I faced myself, as a woman of colour, who moved to a different country and was looking for economic opportunities. Whilst I was at university, I was in Pakistan and a young woman asked about me going to university as she was not even allowed primary education. So, for her, coming across someone who was at university was really unusual. I stood there with this privilege and realisation that I got this opportunity and she, who I considered smarter than me, wasn’t offered the same opportunity. That’s what triggered my interest to work for economic empowerment and inclusion for women through education. There are so many challenges when faced with accessing job opportunities in a new place when you must build your connections from scratch. What I had though was my digital skills: I knew how to build a digital strategy and create a meaningful online presence. I built on that skill and started consulting local, non-profit, organisations. I noticed then that a lot of women around me were in similar positions. And this wasn’t limited to women of colour, like me, but also local women who were looking to step back into work after a break for various reasons. It was a huge challenge for them because the technological landscape had drastically changed so they had to become “eligible” again by upgrading their skills. Now let’s be honest, if you are a guy, it’s easier to put yourself out there and get new connections and knowledge. In this industry, because of how women are judged so easily and harshly, we have become more shy and reluctant to ask for help. This is where the mentoring program that we had designed helped re-establish their confidence. They would go through the digital boot camp for a week where they would build websites; connect with mentors (for up to 6 months); learn and work together and become attractive to recruiters. Before that, they didn’t even get the chance to go to interviews. Fast forward to today, we’re operating in 8 different countries both in Europe and Asia with a focus on delivering customised bespoke boot camps. We understand where these candidates are currently and then tailor the boot camp to their needs. But it isn’t just about upskilling. We need to look at the ecosystem, the roots of the problem. We find it very important to build the capacity of the ecosystem stakeholders as well. Moreover, we’ve taken the lessons we’ve learnt and shared them to platforms such as the UN WSIS, government, and other business conferences’ to show why and how we need to tackle these problems. HOW CAN SOMEONE GET DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING? There are so many ways that they can get involved with The Code to Change from being a volunteer mentor or donating, or even being part of the team. We’re looking for volunteers with a knack for problem-solving. They have to love a challenge where they can break problems down into small bite-size chunks. We’re quite versatile with the groups that we’re working with from refugees and migrant groups who speak different languages; to native tribes in the US; to female entrepreneurs from Pakistan. They all have their own unique set of challenges which require strategic insight to solve them. So people can write to us and share what they can contribute. We are always looking for mentors – whether Subject Matter Experts or Trainers or Mentors. People can also nominate us for things too! NICE. THERE’S SO MUCH THAT YOU DO TO TACKLE THIS CURRENT LACK OF DIVERSITY IN THE TECH SPACE. ON A MORE GENERAL LEVEL, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE CAN DO MORE OF TO ENCOURAGE DIVERSITY IN THE TECH SPACE? What we’ve been doing in the past is focusing on programmes and initiatives that put the burden of fixing this on women, right? And it takes the approach of “we need to fix women so that they can become eligible for this kind of environment” which is toxic for them in the end. We’ve seen this so many times.Our female graduates end up in the workforce for 6-12 months because they get burnout as they don’t get the environment where they can learn so they end up leaving. This is something we need to solve but the burden shouldn’t lie on women: we need to focus on systemic changes. The workplace needs to change policies around. The systemic change needs to come above the policy-making level – both on the government and corporate levels. It’s all well and good to see that they have goodwill but we need actionable change! We see a lot of campaigns where they’re featuring a lot of these women, but does it actually impact their lives?Whether positive or not, it’s simply just more window dressing for those companies. I’ve turned down many opportunities because we need to stop capitalising on the issue. Of course, there are women looking for exposure and allyship and we shouldn’t discount this! At the same time, it shouldn’t just be for the company image. It should have a long-term impact on the lives of the women that you are trying to feature in your campaigns. The situation is the same if you’re a female founder for example. Not only are you judged more harshly when you go to pitch desk for funding but the ridiculous amount of pressure and the kind of pressure that you have to perform and show results or financial projections. If you compare it with how the male founders would be judged as compared to female founders, it’s quite ridiculous. And the amount of pressure that female founders have is immense. And despite all that, despite her pitch deck being exceptional, she might still not end up getting funded because we’re not used to trusting women with money. But we would instantly trust a white male for a very similar, possibly less developed project. So two things could be said and interpreted completely differently depending on the gender of the person speaking. Exactly. I get you. You’ve actioned a lot of your beliefs, for example at the UN, Government and Conferences, and seen a lot of lives changed. What’s been a highlight of your career? When we talk about changing lives, I know it’s such a cliché, but you hear the stories of how someone’s life has changed their earning capability 6, 12 months down the line. We see the journey of graduates who have set up brilliant careers and see them develop from the first time we sat down with them to now. That gives me so much energy and power to go on with the work that we do. I have to say, I have an amazing team, a diverse panel of experts and advisors who truly believe in what we are doing, and this is what we all take great joy in. From hearing the stories and feedback to finding out what they are doing now and what projects they’ve created. It gives me absolute joy to be a part of these stories whether directly or indirectly. WHAT WOULD BE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE YOU WOULD GIVE SOMEONE FROM A DIVERSE BACKGROUND WHO IS LOOKING TO JOIN THE TECH SPACE AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS? If you start your learning journey today, in 6 months’ time you will be amazed at how many opportunities open up to you. From strategic courses where you build your skills to aligning yourself with like-minded people, you will find yourself in a completely different spot. The sense of community and sense of belonging is so important - so start connecting! Thank you so much for your time. Do you have anything, in particular, you want to end on? Thank you! Cindy Gallop’s quote really resonates with me, as we hear more and more stories from female founders and Women in Tech; “Don’t empower me, Pay me.” And this should be the tone for all women-focused campaigns and programs now in my opinion. Whether it is an indigenous woman in the Americas, an artisan from rural Pakistan or a tech entrepreneur in the city of Amsterdam, they all want to just run their businesses. And be financially independent! It’s important to build confidence and endorse our technical and leadership skills: but, at the same time, please don’t use those things as excuses to not pay women their due share. It’s time they got their fair share in the economy of 2023! That’s what I would like to end on   Thanks, Iffat, you rock! Interview by Lizzie Murray 

Developing curiosity helps a child to be willing and able to continually grow, learn and question what is around them. So when Gaia Armellin started exploring her granny's loft she stumbled across piles of magazines. Fascinated by the layouts, storytelling images and psychology, that was the moment Gaia realised her passion for design...and boy did it grow. Now Principle UX and Chapter Lead at Backbase, Gaia manages the design consultancy team, supports client projects and even has time to promote internal initiatives. And if that isn't enough, she is also a mentor, offering free career and UX coaching to UX designers looking for their first job or transitioning careers - which is clear based on all the AMAZING takeaways, scattered throughout her story!  Why don't we all take ten minutes today to revisit our inner-child passions and see if they are related to what we love today... TELL ME A BIT ABOUT YOUR JOB AND WHAT A DAY IN THE LIFE LOOKS LIKE FOR YOU? I work as Principal UX and Chapter Lead for the Customer Success Europe team of Backbase, a global fintech company in the financial industry. The role entails managing the design consultancy team (e.g. building the team, growing talents, on and offboarding, creating regional UX strategy...);  supporting clients' projects (e.g. handling escalations); and driving or promoting internal initiatives mainly related to the Backbase UX Guild and other departments. Usually, my day starts at 9:00, checking emails and Slack messages. I quickly triage the requests, handle the most important ones then jump into calls with other UX leads to align on initiatives and work on to-dos. From 11 am until lunch I'm generally free, to work on such initiatives, create workshops, and take care of urgent demands. After lunch, I have biweekly 1:1s with my reports, interviews with new candidates, meetings with department leaders to align on initiatives and work on to-do's, or supporting projects with design consultancy. The end of my day is focused on writing documentation and knowledge sharing (e.g. new career framework, UX WOW,...). Every day is different and there are always unexpected challenges that come up. This is what makes it interesting :)  HOW AND WHY DID YOU GET INTO DESIGN? It's a long story but for time's sake, it's thanks to hours spent in my granny's attic. When we visited her, I sneaked up there where grandma stored piles of magazines. I was fascinated by the ads. The layouts, storytelling images, the psychology and intention behind it. It was all so compelling.  My love for design sprung from psychology and visuals, but it stuck because it's an incredibly wide topic. How the medium influence design, how to create a service, how business and finance impact decisions, how to work with politics and cultures…It's a never-ending learning experience. WHAT CHALLENGES DO YOU THINK WOMEN FACE IN THE DESIGN INDUSTRY? HOW DO YOU THINK THESE CHALLENGES SHOULD BE TACKLED?  Premise: 1- I don’t feel comfortable answering for the whole “women” category as I assume challenges are different based on world regions, cultural and societal backgrounds, and working industries. For this question, I’ll use my experience only, and being solely my experience and privileged, it’ll be biased and limited. 2- As much as we're pushing for inclusion, the design industry for tech and banking is still largely male-dominated. Therefore, to tackle women's challenges we should first solve the systemic issues of this male-dominated industry but that's too wide of a topic for here. Having set the premise, I can now deep-dive into the daily challenges because they act as symptoms of the root cause and they are more easily recognizable..  Paternalization and not being taken seriously. At times, it's about warnings and forecasts about risks management being laughed at, or peers utterly unaware of context and problematics explaining my job to me; at times, it's about not being accepted as a manager, or having to patch up the backlash peers received for not following direct instructions; at times it's being told women are good at something just because of gender. My way of tackling this is the UX way - by taking a step back, observing, asking questions, and gathering data to understand why men are acting that way. What part of my message is not clear? What part of me are they reacting to? And what part of their human experience (memories, fears…) is present in the interaction? This plus morphing into what the audience feels familiar lower barriers and make space for human connection beyond stereotypes, first impressions, and biases.Sexualization and focus on looks & appearance. Although I live in the Netherlands and my work experience is mainly in northern Europe where gender bias is lower than in other countries, it truly makes a difference in what clothes I wear and how I present myself at work, especially at events or client meetings. It’s fairly usual to be told that I look tired when not wearing make-up or that the first thing noticed is the attire. Worse cases are colleagues addressing me inappropriately at the workplace, making suggestive comments during interviews with candidates, or in work communication channels. However, these comments come from any gender and they seem more related to the societal normalization of focusing primarily on looks than anything else. Not being woman enough, but also not being man enough. Any person can incorporate a plethora of sides that make external expectations based on gender stereotypes limiting and biased. Hence, hearing about how caring, pleasant, and accommodating I should be being a woman is quite funny, as much as it is being told that I’m not aggressive enough, that I should be more dominant, and less emotional if I want to go ahead. Violence or physical risks. In some regions of the world, challenges may lead to abuse. For example, while hiring in Saudi Arabia, we discussed in depth the option of having a full-male design team in order to ensure the safety of each person when visiting clients. We then decided to hire female UXers and arrange for stronger preparation for them and any other category at risk. I’d like to stress that these negative experiences are a limited number in a much wider positive pool.  WHAT HAS INSPIRED YOU TO GET INTO THE TECH/DESIGN INDUSTRY? It happened by chance. My background was variegated and I just knew I wanted to work for an international company with international clients because these places overflow with innovation, creativity in the wider sense, and a growth mindset. Once I spoke with Andreas Gerolemou, I knew I wanted to learn from him and that’s why Backbase was my choice. DO YOU HAVE ADVICE FOR PEOPLE COMING INTO THE DESIGN SPACE THAT THINK IT MAY BE TOO OVERWHELMING? Be patient with yourself. It’s good to be hungry and ambitious, but you will not learn everything in a matter of months. UX is such a wide topic that it’s simply not possible - and even though companies will want you to know all and be all, you don’t need to in order to be successful.  Learn detachment and not take things personally. As a UXer, your role is to interpret the needs of your users and come up with solutions that will best serve them - or nudge them in the right direction (see #3). Things will come and go. No matter how expert one is, ego doesn’t have a place in UX.  Listen and speak the language of your audience. Are you job hunting? Research the company and show your value using their wording. Do you want funds for your initiatives? Listen to what your CFO is asking for and build your case in terms of profits and costs. Interviewing users in a non-English speaking country? Listen to what words they use and use them to bridge the cultural gap and create familiarity. Read the room, listen beyond the words, and use your findings to gain deeper insights, negotiate, or nudge. You are there for your users. WHAT CHALLENGES HAVE YOU FACED IN YOUR DESIGN CAREER? Access to information and transitioning careers. 2010, Italy was the moment I started looking into a design career. Historically, Italian "design" means graphic design, interior design, fashion design, architecture, and advertising, and I choose the latter. It took me another 5 years to find out about UX design - and that Milan has one of the most renowned service design faculties. The same happens to a lot of other people who'd like to work as UX designers but they just don't know the path exists - or find out later in life and have to start from zero. Defining the path. Once UX became a trend, boot camps popped up everywhere. In spite of that, the right path is still unclear and the more time passes, the more sub-specializations seem to appear. One can take a university course, a boot camp, or a Google course, and all of them release a certification. One can also be self-taught and do the work, and still be a UXer. This makes for a vague definition of which syllabus to follow and the basic skill set level for entry-level positions. Recruitment done wrong and unclear market needs. The vagueness described above reflects in the industry and UX recruitment. In 2017 -when UX became hype- everybody wanted a UX designer but nobody knew what it was. Example: a company I collaborated with swapped employees’ email signatures from “content manager” to “UX designer”. For more insights on how painful it was doing interviews, feel free to reach my Medium article "Why I Hate Job Hunting". Although UX is now more established, the lack of clarity remains. To solve this, I enlisted the help of recruiter friends in giving me a "reality check" of what the upcoming job market needs and how my experience ought to satisfy them.  Imposter syndrome and self-doubts. When the definition of something is loose and each person shares opinions, it makes it almost impossible to run a valid self-assessment and define proper KPIs to reach. To handle this better, my process begins with setting an ideal goal and figuring out milestones with backward design. The second step is trial and error: test out different strategies, adjust and mix them until I find something that works for me and with the goal I set, and is in line with the person I aim to be. Not every time it turns out successful - which takes to the last and probably biggest challenge. Managing (self)expectations. I always believed in following the job. In the course of my design career, I moved 17 times across 8 countries; got fired 1.5 times; resigned once from a toxic job; embarked 3 times on ventures I strongly believed in and didn't pan out - the 1st didn't have funds to hire me, the 2nd wasn't ready to scale up, the 3rd I built the wrong business model; or got ahead of myself and managed to be successful at work sacrificing my health. All of this while maintaining (and struggling to) a 7-year long distance relationship, going through sicknesses and death in the family, and living from the sidelines the births and growth of my nieces and nephew. I’d lie if I’d say that everything was easy peasy and that I never wished for things to turn out differently. I’d lie if I’d say that I never felt guilty for not being more present at home when my home is split between Italy and any other country I live in - or that I never felt guilty for not feeling guilty enough because I love doing my job even when it’s crazy. I’d lie if I’d say that I never wished I could do more and be more. For a few months now, I’ve reached some balance - maybe I’ve learned my limits by straining them, or maybe I learned to let go and give less f*** (thanks, Mark Manson!). For sure, I forgive and am more patient with myself and this, for now, is enough. WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR PROUDEST MOMENT TO DATE, BOTH PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY? Since 2016, I started offering free career and UX coaching to UX designers looking for their first job or transitioning careers. During COVID, it became my second "job". When the 1st mentee reached out to share they got the job they wanted and just a few months earlier didn't believe they could get it, that meant the world to me. Every time it happened, it means the world - because it means they started to believe in their own value and learned how to present it in the correct way for their target audience. That's the trait of a great user experience designer. WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE A MENTOR IN YOUR INDUSTRY?  Mentors and coaches can be of great support in developing one personally and professionally. They can share their knowledge and guide you in finding your way. However, they shouldn't be one's only lifeline. In fact, they may be the last resource to reach out to, after exhausting everything else. On any given topic, there are plenty of resources to learn from, starting from your peers, LinkedIn posts, Medium articles, books, movies, videos, feedback from friends and family… And then, there is the old-but-gold trial and error. Put yourself out there. Create a strategy and give yourself some time to test it. Gather data and feedback from that. Once this is done for a couple of rounds and things still don't work out, then get a mentor - and keep those other resources at hand, because nobody has the perfect recipe for everything and personal accountability is key for growth. DO YOU HAVE A STORY TO TELL ABOUT IMPOSTER SYNDROME YOU WOULD BE HAPPY TO SHARE? So many stories! Due to how I was brought up, perfectionism and imposter syndrome have been my personal and professional life companions for many years; they still resurface every now and then. One example: when someone talks to me aggressively out of the blue, I tend to freeze and it takes me a couple of minutes to find my words. No matter how prepared I am, it leaves me with the feeling that I'm dumb because better answers come to mind after the interaction has ended. "So I should be able to reply faster, wittier, better. Right at that moment. Other people can do it! Why can't I?!".  It recently happened at a company party and haunted me for days, ruminating on my reaction and the answer I gave. My mentor's advice was to ask for 2 minutes to collect myself before responding, or to kindly ask to postpone the conversation to another moment in time, to better prepare myself and share value; in case I still wouldn't happy with the outcome, to send an email or meeting invite with the object "Upon reflection, these are my thoughts". As simple as it sounds, those simple hacks and letting of control helped massively in handling the aftermath of the party conversation and another couple of events that happened afterwards. CHALLENGES WHEN IT COMES TO HIRING IN THE DESIGN SPACE? Although there are several diverse challenges depending on the job grade, the main ones I've encountered are the following: Lack of unified job title vs skillset matrixUX designer, product designer, interface designer, service designer, UI expert… Unfortunately, design titles rarely match a clear job description and a precise understanding of what skills the job entails. This confusion permeates the industries as well as the candidates’ profiles. E.g. Companies in need of developers ask for a UX designer because it's trendy; graphic designers label themselves as UX designers because they built a website once.   Assessing skill levels remotelyDue to COVID times, hybrid or remote work has become a norm. The side effect during recruitment is that evaluating skill level has become more challenging because digital conversations only let 20% of the message pass through; moreover, there has been a tendency for candidates to refrain from sharing portfolios or work samples, or being willing to sit through design tests as it takes time and effort. Without facts, it’s impossible to make a valid decision and it’s up to the recruiter's street-smartness and intuition to make the right choice. Hiring globallyGlobalization has allowed for recruitment horizons to expand. While it increases the talent pool, hiring globally inherently raises cultural and language barriers making candidates' assessments more problematic, and can backfire when companies that offer visa sponsorships are used as launching pads for candidates to access the new market, increasing turnover and operational costs.   Thanks, Gaia, you rock!  Interview by Cameron Daniel

“AI” is having a moment and whether you are here for it or not, it looks like it’s getting smarter…Women Rock ambassador Lizzie had the pleasure in speaking with Oliviana Bailey who can explain this complex technology to us mere mortals! Oliviana herself isn’t from a tech background so had to quickly learn to “talk the talk” when she began her journey into this colourful and exciting world. Now Director at Hyperion Lab – who are creating a space to accelerate green AI and are all about responsible and ethical practices within the AI space, Oliviana is also an ambassador for Women in AI (basically a Women Rock superhero!)  From the Alexa in your kitchen to transforming yourself into an anime character on Lensa – AI is here to stay, so join us in understanding AI with Oliviana… THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.  I’M LOOKING FORWARD TO SHARING WHAT YOU HAVE TO OFFER! SO TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF AND WOMEN IN AI Yes! So I’m originally from the US and came to the Netherlands 6 years ago to do my masters where I worked for an accelerator that worked for startups in Africa and the Middle East. It’s there I realised that if you're going to make change in this world, it's got to be from the bottom up. After my masters, I worked at Rockstart with startups in Health and AI where I became Head of Community additionally supporting the Energy and Agri food programmes on community. I worked with mentors and corporates to help relocate startups into the Dutch market and get the support they needed. Afterwards, I helped ING build their community by bringing various stakeholders together for cross collaboration across different industries. It was from a NVIDIA referral that I joined Escher Cloud – a start-up who is building a sustainable cloud of AI and HPC. And, the former ambassador for Women in AI was leaving and asked me to take over – which I did! Women in AI is a global community which started in 2016 and currently has about 10,000 members! Interestingly, the Dutch chapter is one of the most active chapters despite being one of the smallest countries. I think it’s because the Netherlands is very tech focused. Whilst you do see quite a lot of women in the tech space, I saw that the majority of mentors and start-ups were not actually women. So, I really wanted to be able to help push that forward and provide a platform for our women. I LOVE THAT. IT’S A GREAT JOURNEY THAT YOU’VE HAD GOING INTO WOMEN IN AI. GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF YOUR JOURNEY, HOW DID YOU GET INTO AI? Yeah, it’s kind of funny because I don’t have a technical background but most people think that I do because I definitely know how to “talk the talk” at this point. I got into this space from working in the AI programme at Rockstart. I suppose when you have to read about 500 applications for AI startups, vet them and then select the top 25: you really get to know the technology. Also, being one of the first team members at Esher cloud helped me accelerate my AI knowledge whilst they were figuring out their strategy and product at that time. I remember during one of the first product development calls where they were talking about “teraflops” and “GPU versus CPU” and I had to pull our CTO aside and say, “OK, give it to me straight. We really need to dumb this down!.” Even when I asked my husband, who’s a software engineer, he started going into binary numbers – it made no sense!! So, my role in the AI space has been helping with the “explainability” of AI.  AI has a huge potential to change the world but most people within this space are so deep in technological knowledge they haven’t really figured out how to explain it which is why I think there’s so much hype around it. It’s similar to the early days of the internet where no one really understood it. That’s why you see people talking about how AI is going to steal your job. But, really, it’s just a tool like the internet. Like your Alexa at home is just a form of AI. AI is not this big scary thing, it's actually very accessible and it will shape the future of us, hopefully for the better. WHY IS WOMEN IN AI IMPORTANT?  So, Women in AI is important because it advocates for diversity and representation in the AI space. At the moment, there's not a lot of women in the field and I think it’s due to people’s idea that you have to be good at maths, or love video games, or have incredible technical knowledge. It’s also so important to make sure that AI data is accumulated and managed accurately – especially for healthcare industries using AI. For example, if we use historical data, the majority is white male which leads to a lot of biases in the decision making for AI. But, we know, medically, that different symptoms can arise in different sexes, races, and ages. So that discussion of diversity is important to the core foundations of AI because we need to look at the available data, how we’re using it and ensuring that there’s no bias from legacy data. If you have a very homogenous team, you’re not going to notice governance practices and ensure that you incorporate diverse voices. Also, interestingly, we see that most of the women in ai community comes from healthcare because it’s a huge tool for them where they need to have the right dataBut, overall, it’s important we have a community, like Women in AI, to amplify AI and give voices to these women. In such a male dominated field, it gives role models for the younger generation to get involved in what’s important. We’re still in the forefront of the AI journey so if we don’t have that diverse voice now, it’s going to impact us later on.  WHAT DO YOU THINK CAN BE DONE TO ATTRACT MORE WOMEN IN AI? So, our way is through initiatives that can be used by anyone. For example, we host inclusive talent fairs which bring diverse candidates forward; we do education courses for young girls teaching them how to use AI; we offer mentorship to help develop soft skill leadership building; and, we showcase companies that are doing it right. It’s also not just about getting more women in, but helping women move up in the field because we need to see more women in leadership positions. You’ll see companies with more Women in leadership positions result in more women joining the company. One way we support this is hosting a Women in AI Awards where we can shine a light on AI companies and women.  AS WELL AS YOUR WOMEN IN AI PROJECT, YOU’RE ALSO THE DIRECTOR OF HYPERION LAB WHICH YOU MENTIONED EARLIER. IT’S A PROGRAMME THAT CAN SHOWCASE AND SUPPORT GREEN AI COMPANIES AND STARTUPS. WHAT WAS YOUR INSPIRATION FOR HYPERION LAB?  The inspiration for Hyperion Lab comes back to NVIDIA and Escher Cloud. I guess the first thing to clarify is that there are different types of green AI. Most people think of green AI in relation to being sustainable, but green AI is also how apps are built: Are you making sure your algorithm isn’t over using resources? Are you on ethical clouds? Any circular energy projects?It’s also about responsible and ethical practises. So, we wanted to bring all these startups together and provide a sustainable cloud. We know that AI requires GPU but within Europe there’s not much GPU capacity even in the hyperscalars. So it’s also about providing more access to that because GPU runs better whereas CPU is a slower process and less sustainable. It’s also helpful to have companies being brought together from different industries and seeing the great collaborations that happen. They share technologies and build on each other! I like to see it as an ecosystem that continues to build and support each other’s data without having to keep rebuilding it.  THERE’S SO MUCH THAT YOU DO – IT’S INSPIRATIONAL. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS ONE OF YOUR PROUDEST ACHIEVEMENTS? You know, that’s a hard one. I guess I’m very proud of kicking off Hyperion Lab as it’s the culmination of all the work I've done in the last several years. It jump-started my network - in terms of the startups that I've worked with, investors, mentors, corporates, and it also got me back into the Women in AI ecosystem. It helps impact the startups and talent that we’re working with. So, it’s my baby! Even though I was brought on board to develop it,  it's been my blood, sweat and tears that have got this off the ground. So, at the moment, I’m this extra resource to all these startups helping them connect with the rest of the ecosystem; helping them understand how to work with corporates; and, helping them talk about technology and expand their network.  YOU DO EVENTS VERY REGULARLY AND ONE THAT'S HAPPENING IN A FEW WEEKS IS THE INCLUSIVE AI TALENT FAIR. WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO CREATE THAT AND HOW TO GET INVOLVED? So, knowing that it’s important to create a diverse team from the start, we have launched this talent fair to bring all this talent from all backgrounds together. It's a collaboration of Hyperion Lab on our responsible Green AI segment; Women in AI bringing the female talent; and Extra Mile, a community group based in Amsterdam South working with the local Bijlmer community to help showcase their talent. Also, it’s not just university level, there’s so much talent here that’s self-taught. It’s incredible work they’re doing so we’re providing a space for them to come together and meet companies. If you want to get involved we have our Eventbrite up and it’s happening on March 23rd. And, if there’s companies interested, we have booths available to meet the talent. The goal is to bring together the underrepresented talent community with companies that know that diverse teams are better teams. THAT’S AWESOME. FINALLY, IF YOU HAD ONE PIECE OF ADVICE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN AI, WHAT WOULD IT BE? So, my one piece of advice is: don't be scared about it being “deep tech”. There's so many applications, open source tools, free trainings, and education making it incredibly accessible for everyone. Just don't be scared of these random scary words people throw out that you have no idea about. There’ll be someone who will help explain it.In general, if you're going to start your own company or get more involved: just jump in and do it. My favourite saying these days is “to not ask for permission, but to ask for forgiveness”. It’s a growth hacking mentality by just doing something small, get yourself into it. If it fails, it's OK. Fail small and keep moving forward.  I LOVE THAT, I DON’T THINK I’VE HEARD OF THAT BEFORE! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, IT’S FANTASTIC WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Thanks Oliviana! You rock! Interview by Lizzie Murray  

The line between emotive and factual, creativity and analytical is getting more and more blurred in the world of tech and folk from creative backgrounds are finding other ways to their creativity in a way that aligns with facts and data. Just like Kellie Hill did when she embarked on her journey into the tech industry. Continuing with this theme, Kellie would like to see STEM become 'STEMD' where the D stands for “Design” - especially as we see an increase in Neurodiverse people - who are typically more creative - journeying into the world of tech. HEY KELLIE! THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR STORY WITH US. LET’S START AT THE BEGINNING – HOW DID YOU FIRST GET INTO THE TECH INDUSTRY? I worked in both digital and creative spaces, then stepped into hardcore tech at Capgemini. I was driven by experiences in GSK, Ted Baker, Metro Bank, and worked in several roles as a Product Owner/Business Transformation consultant. I learned the hard way that I had to work hard to get my voice heard. I fell into the technology industry primarily by circumstance as I didn’t want to become obsolete. I’m naturally very ambitious, impatient, and creative, and tech has a lot of disciplines that can fulfil that hunger for knowledge. WHAT CHALLENGES HAVE YOU FACED IN THE INDUSTRY? Confidence – I didn’t study cloud computing or data science, so I had doubts around my technical understanding. I had to learn to have confidence in myself, my skills and where I came from. I experienced a serious case of imposter syndrome as I wasn’t familiar with technical jargon and I was afraid this would show a lack of credibility. I eventually tackled this just by having conversations and understanding what other roles do. I needed to understand Business Strategy to understand where other roles sat. Another big challenge was being dismissed – I’m naturally creative and emotive, and within tech, there’s typically a need to be factual and detailed with data. I was told in a meeting that “it’s not about how you feel” and it was challenging for me to find a way to express my creativity in a way that aligned with the facts and the data. With regards to being a woman in tech, I never experienced any overt prejudice, but I experienced covert microaggressions (cutting me off during meetings, undermining her points publicly, etc) which by nature are hard to prove are based on me being a woman. HIGHLIGHT OF YOUR CAREER SO FAR? My Team won an international CX award (gold) for an app that was delivered to a global FMCG company that had over 360,000 colleagues. It was tested by colleagues who had an accessibility need and had a very human-centred design based on those with neurodiversity challenges. I realised that an “inclusive-first experience” benefits everyone involved.  WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO OTHERS WHO WANT TO GO INTO THE SAME CAREER? Increase your skill in design. You can use free tools to get skilled in user experience and design. Get yourself accredited as a PO and Scrum Master. Join any groups that are linked to business transformation disciplines. Become multidisciplinary. Speaking specifically to a woman, I’d suggest getting a mentor, believing in yourself and having confidence in yourself. Trust that you belong there. Ensure you have psychological support outside of work to increase your mental resilience and fortitude - have the strategies and tools, and techniques around you to increase your resilience. Ensure your mental health remains intact. Outside of that, be a great servant leader. WHAT AREA OF D&I ARE YOU MOST PASSIONATE ABOUT AND WHY? I think we need to see more black women in tech and senior positions throughout business as a whole. To do that we need to increase equity and equality, as they are massively under-represented. Secondly – neurodiversity (dyslexic, autism, adhd any other neuro-divergencies). Neurodiverse people are typically more creative, which is the antithesis of STEM and therefore hasn’t had a firm standing within Tech. I believe “STEMD” where the D stands for “Design” is the way forward. WHAT AREA OF D&I DO YOU FEEL IS MOST UNDERREPRESENTED AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE INDUSTRY COULD DO TO CHANGE THAT? Primarily, I don’t think there’s enough light shed on Black Women, but a close second would be someone’s socioeconomic status. I want to see more diversity based on socio-economic status because attitude, willingness, and ability to get the job done and isn’t exclusive to a particular status. Not having a mix of backgrounds and ethnicities limits ideas and initiatives and detracts from the overall value a company can deliver. I believe if a company changes its interview process to be less focused on academics and more focused on mindset and approach, then this would be an effective first step in creating this change. FINALLY, DO YOU HAVE A MANTRA YOU LIVE BY? Learn to be your authentic self, because nobody will do it for you.    Thanks, Kellie you rock 🤘 Interview by Andrew Delsol

The power of 'WHY?'.Not asking questions can ruin teamwork, individual relationships, projects, and deadlines and result in an unmotivated and uninspired workplace. Without fostering a culture that is open to curiosity, no company can innovate successfully. Curiosity might have killed the cat but asking the question and learning something new might just lead to something fantastic.When Victoria Reed began her adventure into tech, she found asking a room full of men 'why?' extremely daunting. However, now running a large team at LUSH Digital, Victoria has discovered that by harnessing the power of 'WHY?' not only do projects run a lot more smoothly, but you also gain insight AND the respect of your team by showing them the willingness to learn and grow. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO TALK WITH US TODAY, VICTORIA. CAN WE START BY TELLING US ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND AND WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO START A CAREER IN TECH AFTER FINISHING YOUR DEGREE IN POPULATION AND GEOGRAPHY?It’s a pleasure, and lovely to chat with you too. Of course, I really enjoyed my degree as it was focused so heavily on demographics and statistics. What I enjoyed the most was learning about the impact of events on people. This I feel is something that I have ended up carrying into my career in tech with the focus always being on the customer. After I graduated, I decided to do some travelling and did a ski season, which I loved! I was applying for a summer job to get some money in the bank before my next adventure when I found a role which I was really intrigued by at The Richmond Group. I was the first Project Manager they hired and was a core part of growing their fintech portfolio, I didn’t do the extra travelling as I loved the job so much! The main thing that inspired me to start my career in tech was realising how anything is possible in tech and how evolving technology is and most importantly the benefit it can bring to the customer in their day-to-day lives. WHEN YOU STARTED YOUR CAREER, YOU WERE THE ONLY FEMALE IN A TECH TEAM OF 40 PEOPLE, WHAT WERE THE OBSTACLES YOU FOUND? AND HOW DID YOU OVERCOME THEM?I remember when I was leading my first tech project, I was managing a team of 8 men who were probably double my age at the time and half of them had been at the company a very long time! I was daunted and found it very difficult to ask that simple question ‘why?’ to challenge situations in order to steer the project. I remember thinking, why would they listen to a young woman that’s just graduated? I had to work hard to overcome this and realise that I knew more than I thought and they needed me. I was fortunate enough to have a female director that I was reporting to which really helped in my confidence growth. I learnt the hard way, I made assumptions by not questioning my team enough and my project was delayed. But we have to fail, to grow. I strongly believe that failure is healthy, as it allows you to find areas for improvement (self and team) and implement with a real understanding of why it’s important.YOU NOW CURRENTLY RUN A LARGE DIVISION AT LUSH DIGITAL, (WHAT A JOURNEY!) HOW DO YOU USE YOUR EXPERIENCE IN IDENTIFYING, AND SUPPORTING PEOPLE SHOWING SIGNS OF HAVING IMPOSTER SYNDROME WITHIN YOUR TEAM?In a lot of my 1:1s imposter syndrome and confidence are often areas I work with some team members. I think we have all been there at times, whether it’s a new role or a new team. I think the main challenge in tech is the mixture of teams being non-technical and technical. The beauty of this is that it’s the perfect recipe for success and we rely on each other heavily. But in reality, it can cause barriers in relationships with the different technical understanding sometimes leading to these feelings. My key learning and number one piece of advice is to encourage team members to ask questions, specifically the ‘why’ question. I feel I gained a lot of respect from my peers when I paid an interest in their technical problems and solutions as it showed that I cared about tech, their work and my willingness to learn. This in result not only builds the relationships peer to peer but also the individuals knowledge and confidence. I still do it today, we are always learning, especially in tech when it’s constantly evolving. (Sticky Dates Shower Gel is one of Victoria's favourite LUSH products!) LUSH IS A HIGHLY ETHICAL COMPANY WHO HAVE RECENTLY HIRED FROM CODE YOUR FUTURE, COULD YOU TELL US MORE ABOUT CODE YOUR FUTURE AND WHY YOU THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO PARTNER WITH THIS ORGANISATION?Code your Future is a UK non-profit organisation which trains some of the most deprived members of societies to become web developers and then helps them land their first job in the tech industry. They are trained by volunteers from the tech industry. At LUSH, we strive for diversity and inclusion in our teams, and this is at the forefront of our recruitment. Since working with Code your Future we have made 4 hires through them. We also work heavily with Otta and have sourced a lot of our new hires from there. We are always looking out for new ways to support people from different backgrounds in their tech careers. We acted quickly in the Wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to establish a focused recruitment program to help Ukrainian refugees and are always posting on Women for Tech job boards. WHAT POSITIVE IMPACT DOES HIRING PEOPLE FROM DISADVANTAGED BACKGROUNDS HAVE ON LUSH AND ON YOUR TEAM?It sings to our values, all are welcome always. We really want to invest in our team members and watching someone starting their career in tech, learn and grow is so rewarding. Last year, I hired an extremely passionate junior who had just started their career in tech. After mentorship and dedication, I’ve just promoted them in reflection of their hard work, commitment and results. These stories are vital to LUSH Digital and close to my heart as we want to be growing our employees not only for LUSH, our customers but the tech community. We strive to ensure our products are number 1 for every need, just as we strive to ensure our tech is innovating for the future.WHAT INCENTIVES DOES LUSH DO TO HELP WITH INCREASING DIVERSITY IN DIGITAL?We are lucky to have lots of female employees at LUSH Digital. This in itself helps empower women in tech, specifically when joining the business. LUSH Digital offers a very flexible remote working policy, which gives you the ability to juggle parenthood with work. We have enhanced parental leave and nursery schemes, they are an extremely supportive and flexible employer. We operate a very flat hierarchy and autonomous environment which helps ensure everyone's voices are equal. Since joining, I have been able to challenge and drive change due to the responsibilities I have been given.WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE FOR FEMALES FROM A NON-TECH BACKGROUND THINKING ABOUT GETTING INTO TECH?Don’t doubt yourself, you know more than you think you know. If you have something you want to say, say it, the worst that will happen is that you’ll learn the right answer. Don’t let long technical words overwhelm you, they are just words! Ps make a glossary!WHAT DO YOU DO OUTSIDE OF WORK?I live by the seaside so love going for daily dog walks on the beach, sea swimming and adventures in our rooftop tent. In the summer, you’ll find me out on the water and every now and then water skiing before work! It’s all about that work-life balance. FINALLY, DO YOU HAVE A MANTRA YOU LIVE BY?I know it’s a cliche one, but I truly do believe that everything happens for a reason. I take this outlook into my work often, everything makes you more resilient and allows you to take clear learnings to build the future. Thanks, Victoria you rock 🤘Interview by George Booth

Talk of the weather, stiff upper lip, Marmite - all very British nuances. But what are we most guilty of as a Brit? Not giving ourselves enough credit! We often find it very difficult to talk about what we're good at but is it holding us back?Here, we hear from Karen Fynn - Product Director at Journey, who draws from her experience as an umpire to keep calm under pressure, the importance of the bigger picture when briefing developers and how to tackle "intellectual snobbery".This refreshingly frank article is just what you need if you're feeling a bit lost or at a crossroads in your career...CAN YOU TELL ME A BIT ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND AND HOW YOU GOT INTO PRODUCT MANAGEMENT?By accident really, I was working in IT as an infrastructure server consultant going and doing big migrations of servers. I was between contracts and the development manager of the company I was working for had a lot of work for his team, he said to me “Do you fancy learning how websites work?” and I said, “yeah why not”. So he gave me a half-hour lesson in how websites work, gave me “web design in a nutshell” from O’Reilly and then set me off to go and write all the JavaScript frontend validation for forms on this asset management application that was being written. This was back in the day when there weren’t proper editors or similar so I was coding in notepad. There was nothing to tell you what your syntax errors were! So that was my first introduction into websites and I started to do a lot more of that work as a developer. When I was pregnant with my son I was doing some freelance work whilst on maternity leave, building people's websites, trying to decide if that was something I wanted to do as a career change from working in IT to then building websites. I decided that running my own business as a freelancer wasn’t what I wanted to do and I got offered a job by someone I knew. I said I like managing projects, but I’m also really interested in software engineering, he said, “well I think I have the answer to both of our problems then” and I came on as Product Manager with Firehoop and that was that! WHAT ATTRACTED YOU TO PRODUCT MANAGEMENT AS A CAREER?I’ve always been someone that, when there’s a big mess, seem to have the ability to see through it all and organise things. If someone shows me the big picture, I know how to break it down. I’ve always had that ability to see things that way. I like the fact that it can still be quite a technical role, but also, I am interested in business and overcoming the problems that people have and finding solutions and solving problems.WHAT HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES YOU'VE FACED AND HOW HAVE YOU OVERCOME THEM?With everything that I end up doing, you have multiple plans in mind with what you can do to be able to meet expectations. So having backup plans of how you change the scope to be able to deliver something on time is something that is always a challenge. But I think the biggest one is when there are issues that can’t be controlled by product. Technical debt in a product can be one of the toughest things to work with if you have a product with too much technical debt. It’s virtually impossible to be able to overcome it, we’ve ended up dealing with it with best practice, trying to do the boy scout route of leaving something better than when you found it. I guess it’s also about communicating the needs to everyone. As much as developers want to write code, giving them context for the bigger picture is obviously important as they can make better decisions with implementation and really know and own the product rather than just being told.CAN YOU DESCRIBE A SPECIFIC PROJECT OR PRODUCT THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF AND EXPLAIN WHY?Revspa, our spa booking platform, we are all quite proud of it as it’s the first spa booking engine with live pricing and availability, we partnered with a third-party company to get that functionality. We worked with them to build their API to our requirements. Off the back of our collaboration as two businesses, we have created something that our customers really love. It looks great, and operates well so that’s still something we are all proud of. The current product that we are working on, OneJourney I’m proud of it and the team because it's so complicated. The Belfry and Celtic Manor have tried and failed to do what we’ve done. It’s a huge achievement to have gotten to where we are. The other one that I really loved working on was a project when I was at Firehoop for British Cycling and SKY, a collaboration for their recreational cycling programme to get a million more people into cycling. We worked with those two companies for about five years launching all their campaigns. And that wasn’t just about the brand, there were bookings, and there were GPS files of routes that you could download, upload, and book on rides. There were so many different aspects to it, all bespoke and all the workflows were complex as it was a very big application. It was enjoyable because it was an interesting subject matter but also technically complex. All three of those products have been technically complex and executed in a simple user-friendly way. So, I think those are always the ones that you know you’re doing well because somebody thinks that what you have produced is simple. WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU HAVE FOR SOMEONE WHO IS LOOKING TO BREAK INTO THE SECTOR?Listen. And ask the question that needs to be asked, by that I mean, people will provide solutions and listening to what they have to say and asking the why is so important because people don’t always know what they need. Because they will come along with a solution and say "can it do this?", "can you do this thing?", or maybe someone on the board is saying "here’s a vision, can you do it?". Understanding why is the key to all of it. Asking delving questions and then also listening to what people have to say in response and remembering it. If someone gives you that information, it’s polite if nothing else to absorb the information in whatever way is best for you. If you are actively listening and absorbing information and asking questions, then you can do your best work in being able to provide the solution. I think if you don’t fully understand the situation, ask questions to really get to the bottom of it so it’s solid in your help. Sometimes people don’t feel brave or confident enough to be able to say “sorry I’m still not quite getting to the bottom of it do you mind sharing a bit more with me”WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU HAVE GIVEN TO YOURSELF AT THE START OF YOUR CAREER, KNOWING ALL THAT YOU KNOW NOW?Don’t downplay your capability. Instead of people thinking “oh Karen is much better than I thought she was going to be”, they start off by thinking maybe you aren’t as capable and then you must work back from being underestimated. It’s a bit of a British thing anyway, it doesn’t always feel comfortable to talk about what you are good at. I found it with umpiring. I would go and say to my colleagues how nervous I was feeling and start talking about all my gaps. Then my colleagues think “is this person going to be able to handle this” and then you go in and rock it and they’re like “oh she’s okay”. If you don’t say it in the first place they will just say “Oh well Karen rocked that”. There’s no need to point out your flaws to everyone unless it’s necessary. Self-awareness is good but you don’t need to open up to people unnecessarily, and you need to be more confident in your own abilities.WHAT CHALLENGES HAVE YOU FACED AS A WOMAN WORKING IN A MALE-DOMINATED FIELD LIKE TECHNOLOGY?I haven’t. It’s a challenge because I think, whether I have needed to or not, I have always wanted to be the hardest working person in the building, and a lot of that has come from wanting to be taken seriously. I also want to know my stuff; I am quite happy to hold my hands up and say I don’t understand that, but I then take time to be able to learn what I need to. I’ve seen situations, and I don’t think it’s a male-female thing, but there’s intellectual snobbery that goes on in the tech world. I think that making sure you know as much as you need to at least, and maybe more, about the technical side of things has been important for me to be taken seriously. That I’m not just someone who is managing, I know the tech as well. I think that has certainly helped with the way that I have worked with teams. Even when I was working in IT as a techie myself, I never had any problems. I have only ever seen problems where someone doesn’t really know or understand or know their field and there might be an assumption that it’s because they’re female. But in my experience, it is more intellectual snobbery, where someone doesn’t know very much be it male or female would struggle. I have had more issues with sexism outside of tech than I have in tech. Dealing with clients and partners, I remember being at a meeting with a partner. I was running the project and I went along with my boss. I knew everything about the product and my boss didn’t, but the brand agency wouldn’t speak to me. I’d ask a question and he would respond to my boss. I was uncomfortable, but I thought I was reading into it. We came out of the meeting and my boss asked me if I was okay as he thought it was awkward.YOU SPEAK A LOT ABOUT YOUR TIME PLAYING, COACHING, AND UMPIRING IN HOCKEY. WHAT IS THE BIGGEST LESSON YOU HAVE TAKEN FROM THIS INTO YOUR CAREER AND ROLE NOW?Umpiring, and what I do as a job are very different in terms of ways of thinking and behaving. At work I must consider, collaborate, get opinions, and build a picture to make sure we are making the right decisions for the strategy, vision, delivery, and execution of the product. In umpiring, I must blow my whistle and decide instantaneously without any kind of collaboration. I’m the one with the whistle and you must do what I say in that scenario. It’s a very different way of thinking and that’s been very difficult for me to overcome, but it is helpful at times at work. If you have 11 people in the team all coming at you complaining about something you did, you won’t shrink and instead, be calm and deal with it. We always say panic slowly. Keeping a poker face when you’re under pressure really helps with resilience for work. It’s interesting - psychologically, umpiring has given me some interesting skills. As I’ve got better at work, I’ve got better as an umpire, and they come together. So, there are quite a lot of crossovers.WHAT’S YOUR FAVOURITE QUOTE THAT YOU REFER TO?Jane Powell (Ex England GB, Hockey, Cricket and Badminton player) used to say when she was training me that she wanted us to “Play with PRIDE, Personal Responsibility In Delivering Excellence”. What you do off the ball is as important as what you do on the ball and helping your teammates to be in the right place and support them. It translates directly to business, with everyone in the team working towards a common goal. From a development point of view, you don’t not self-test and then hand it over to someone for code review and then that other person has to give you a ton of feedback. It’s about doing your job well but also making it easier for other people. Thanks, Karen you rock 🤘Interview by Tom Faire

Did you know the top performing posts on social media include food or an animal - specifically cats or dogs? So when Daniela Alvaran ran into visa issues while studying and beginning her career in the Netherlands, she posted a picture of herself and her housemates (very cute) dog 'Oona' on her profiles to see if anyone could help - and she went viral. Daniela and Oona reached over 200,000 people, one of those people being a founder of Xomnia who got in touch with Daniela and a year later she is working as a talent consultant. When social media is used for the greater good it really does work! Women Rock Ambassador Lucia chatted with Daniela about how she aims to create a more diverse data team, what millennials can learn from Gen Z and who would be guests at her dream dinner party - we'd definitely want a seat at this table, that's for sure...FIRSTLY... HOW DID YOUR JOURNEY START, HOW DID YOU GET INTO TECH RECRUITMENT?The picture of my roommate’s dog saved me from being deported…After moving to the Netherlands for studies & kick-starting my career by helping young entrepreneurs, I ran into some visa sponsorship issues & was in a situation where I needed to find a job, or I'd have to leave the Netherlands. After posting a picture of myself (& gorgeous dog) it reached out to over 200,000 people & the founders of Xomnia found the post and gave me a chance. After being there for a year now, I've had my ups & downs, experiencing imposter syndrome, and having no idea what Machine Learning was when I joined, I've entered the Tech world now & I'm excited to see where this takes me! WHO KNEW A SELFIE WITH A DOG COULD BE LIFE-CHANGING?! YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE AIMING & HOPING FOR THE DATA TEAM TO BE THE MOST DIVERSE, HOW CAN COMPANIES ATTRACT & RETAIN WOMEN IN SENIOR TECH ROLES?Today one of the most senior people we have hired accepted the offer – and she was a woman for the data engineering team! I almost cried when I found out this female was going to be joining this team (which has traditionally been very male-dominated), because it starts there, getting a few senior women on board through networking & recommendations. I worked with my Team Lead to make this happen because he understands the importance of more balance. We're also going to a campaign with one of our youngest Data Engineers & a Women's Tech hub in Amsterdam called Equals. She's so hardworking and really understands the value of representation, so she'll be able to demonstrate a more realistic path for those who are maybe only a small bit away from where she is, inspiring younger women to keep going. Branding is also super important, what you're posting on LinkedIn has to show diversity because if people don't see themselves in what you're posting they're not going to be interested.CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THAT CAMPAIGN ONCE IT'S FINISHED! WHOM WOULD YOU SAY INSPIRES YOU THE MOST?I could name a few, one being Marie Forleo who's super into the social space, celebrating femininity in the workplace. I also know it's cliché but I love Oprah Winfrey, I love what she's done with her platform & I love her new focus on spirituality.WHAT DO YOU THINK MILLENNIALS CAN LEARN FROM GEN Z?I think so much about generations, it's one of my guilty pleasures. Ray Dalio comments on how we're always repeating patterns of history & that what we're living through right now happened beforeI'm really excited to see more millennials make it into leadership positions because they tend to have a more holistic understanding of people and their wants and needs (unlike baby bloomers😉) & tend to understand people more. I think it's really important for millennials to learn more about the digital era from GenZ's. For example, LinkedIn influencers are a real thing now & it's not really cringy!! You can really make an impact at scale through social media and millennials should listen to GenZ because the digital era is going to be a tool to change the world not just something to use for fun.TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! SO, WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE WOMEN TRYING TO GET INTO TECH?I'll give two sides, a recruiter side & a Daniela side... I think it's so important in your early 20's to spend time to try and understand your mind, try to understand your limiting beliefs, and understand how your mind body & emotions are connected, so when you're faced with life later on, you'll be able to handle it a bit better. Also, join a community! I think there are a lot of great communities, women are great at building them. My best friend started from Good Girl to Bad Ass & we meet women from all over the world from. We chat about professional development, our love lives, and our minds & we're just all there for each other. Having a community to help you figure out who you are before your career, will make you feel less alone in the process. In terms of career, it's totally fine to be yourself. You don't have to act like the guys in the room to make it. Once you have that understanding of who you are, it's okay to own it. Stop trying to fit into this mould that the tech world has become!!Besides that, if you can get into consultancy, it's great because you can learn a lot very fast. The requirements do tend to be strict, so Product & start-up organisations are a great place to start. INCREDIBLE ADVICE, THANKS FOR SHARING! NOW MOVING ON TO PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION... YOU'RE HOSTING A DINNER PARTY: WHO ARE YOUR GUESTS, WHAT'S ON THE MENU & WHAT ARE WE PLAYING FOR MUSIC? So funny... Dinner party guest Jay Shetty, he's a millennial with a great understanding of social media. I'd love to understand how he's marrying all these worlds together & how he's using social media to bring it to the masses in such a successful and beautiful way. I'd have his wife Radhi cook some of the lovely vegan stuff she makes! & then after dinner, we can have a salsa party.I'D WANNA BE THERE! AND FINALLY, WHAT'S THE MANTRA YOU LIVE BY?I was a bit hesitant because it's not guided by recruitment or tech, but it is something I live by...Direction over ambition, courage over control & playfulness over emptiness. I don't know what it is, maybe when we're trying to prove ourselves it makes us burnt out. You're trying to control everything. You achieve a lot of things, but you feel so tired and empty in the process, so I think the direction is more a mission-driven thing. It's something north, but you should be flexible on how you get there - it doesn't have to be as strict and demanding and you can definitely have fun in the process!Thanks, Daniela you rock 🤘Interview by Lucia Alcock

There is an argument that soft skills are just as important when pursuing a career in tech, as tech skills and academia. Maybe we're using the wrong adjective here and "soft" doesn't represent the importance of these particular skills - Abilities like empathy, resilience and problem-solving are super important, especially in the tech industry. Women Rock Ambassador Sam spoke with Anita Pritchard this week about her journey into the QA and Testing world and the many important lessons she learnt from becoming a mum, moving from one country to another and securing a role that allows her to work in an industry she loves while celebrating diversity.   HEY ANITA! WE’RE DELIGHTED TO BE SPEAKING WITH YOU AND SHARING A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR JOURNEY IN THE QA/TESTING WORLD SO FAR. HOW HAVE YOU GOT INTO TECH AND ENDED UP AS QA COMMUNITY OF PRACTICE MANAGER AT PRINCIPALITY? Being originally from Germany, I did not plan a career in the UK or in QA. But love makes you do funny things. I met Jason in 2000 during a work placement as part of my language studies at the European Business School in London. I left the UK in 2000 with improved English but a broken heart….. After that, there were many, many flights between London and Frankfurt, and in 2002 we decided to fully commit to our relationship. I moved to the UK in April 2002 and we got married in 2005. Before I left Germany I worked in the payment systems department for the German Central Bank, the Deutsche Bundesbank. The transition to the Bank of England felt logical and I was over the moon when I got a job offer in their payments team. A few years later, I started my testing career after being offered an opportunity in the Bank of England’s Testing Team, testing their payments and settlement systems. The great thing about testing is that you can quickly be appreciated by your team even without having too much of a technical background.  Eventually I got to the point where I was ready for a change. It came quite naturally and I just felt that I needed to see something different and learn new things. I joined McDonald’s IT department as a Test Manager in 2013. After some exciting projects at McDonald’s, Jason and I decided to move with our two children to Monmouth. We always liked the countryside and decided that this change in lifestyle was very important to us. I had to reconsider what I wanted to do but I quickly identified that I really like Quality Assurance (QA) so I wanted to carry on in this field.   I initially accepted a pay cut for the role at Principality, but, I really liked the organisation and the brand and for me, that was more important. And, so that’s how, in 2017, I started my career in the Principality in Cardiff. In the beginning as a Test Lead, then a Test Manager and in 2021 there was the move to the QA Community of Practice Manager.  The main challenge as a Test Lead/Test Manager was the delivery of difficult testing updates. Communicating the impact of complex defects to a large senior stakeholder group was tough and nerve-wracking at times. But I think that the honesty and insight helped and I earned respect for that. In the end, programmes want to deliver high-quality software to their customers. So whilst some delays are sometimes hard to accept, we know it is done with the best intent.   As a Community of Practice Manager, my responsibility has now shifted to focus on the capability of the QA community. I had to make a conscious effort to embrace some new responsibilities and let go of some old ones. But, I thoroughly enjoy leading the QA community with my peer, Marc, and I am excited and passionate about QA and how the industry is continuously progressing. And just in November 2022, Principality won the European Software Testing awards for the Best Software Testing Project for delivering our Mortgages Transformation Programme, including implementing our new Mortgage Sales and Originations (MSO) platform, in partnership with Qualitest. So, it’s great to feel like we’re doing something right. HOW DID YOU FIND ADJUSTING TO LIFE AS A WORKING PARENT IN TECH? HAS THAT EXPERIENCE SHAPED HOW YOU SUPPORT WORKING PARENTS IN YOUR CURRENT ROLE? Tech is fast moving so it’s important to stay up-to-date and keep learning. I have had breaks away from tech, starting with a career break to go travelling in my mid-20s. Then I took 10-month maternity leave for each of my children when I was 29 and 31. These breaks were invaluable for me and also added to my personal experience and development. Having a break, travelling and then becoming a mum allowed me to learn new life skills like resilience, problem-solving, creative thinking, risk management and many others. These newly found skills and juggling family life made catching up on new tech seem so much easier in comparison.  Juggling work with being a parent is a balancing act, I use my working hours to their fullest and make the most of my time when logged on. This in return allows me to have time with my family and for hobbies. Work-life balance has always been important to me as this is the foundation for my mental and physical well-being.  I have had amazing Line Managers and coaches throughout my career. I think I am one of the lucky ones as I have found that my needs for my work-life balance have always been met with respect, and my career aspirations have been encouraged enthusiastically. My Line Managers have always wanted me to experiment and explore, learn new things, and make mistakes. They appreciated that I wanted to progress and gave me their full support. Having experienced this myself makes me want to provide the same level of support to everyone I am coaching in their role. PRINCIPALITY WAS RECENTLY NAMED FIRST IN THE 2022 UK’S BEST WORKPLACES FOR WOMEN AND THIS WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF FEEDBACK AND COMMENTS FROM WOMEN WORKING THERE. THIS IS AN AWESOME ACHIEVEMENT. AS A WOMAN WORKING AT PRINCIPALITY, WHAT MAKES IT SUCH A GREAT PLACE TO WORK? Equality, Diversity and Inclusion are very important to Principality. They provide various networks and forums to make it easy for colleagues to connect. These networks are used to share insights and inspire colleagues through articles, workshops and other engaging activities. “Everyone has the right to come to work and feel comfortable being their real and authentic self”…. I really like that statement from our former Chief People Officer.   The hybrid working strategy, which was introduced this year, was a game changer for me and many others at Principality, and has improved my work-life balance immensely. “Work is an activity, not a destination”, is one of my favourite principles from our hybrid working handbook. During Lockdown, our office was completely refurbished enabling collaboration between people working in the office and people working from home. Being able to work from home saves me over two hours of time commuting every day. That’s priceless. But equally, I do like face-to-face collaboration and the energy I feel when being in the room with other people. So I choose to go to the office one or two days a week.  In addition, Principality offers flexible working options and there is a healthy uptake in the teams. Some members of the QA community work compressed hours such as 70 hours over nine days (meaning a day off every other week) or 35 hours over four days. Adjusting working hours to allow for school runs or other personal commitments is also commonly used and makes a huge difference to individuals and means that we can juggle family and life commitments with work much more easily.  Another element that makes Principality a great place to work as a woman is the focus on mental health, something which is super important. This is supported through the Mental Health Advocacy Network led by our mental health advocates. Their mission is the promotion, protection and restoration of mental health at Principality. We also have an Employee Assistance Programme for a complete range of well-being considerations, including proactive counselling support and regular monthly webinars and online gym sessions. These small things together can make a big difference. WHAT DOES DIVERSITY MEAN TO YOU AND WHY DO YOU THINK IT’S IMPORTANT? I think the world would be very boring if we were all the same. I appreciate the broader perspective I get when discussing topics with a group of people with different genders or sexual orientations, different ages and cultural backgrounds, abilities and disabilities. A diverse group brings different skills, different knowledge and wider views to the table, even more so within Test/QA. I find it interesting how much better conversation is with a diverse community. At Principality, the Community of Practice Leadership team, which consists of nine line managers across change, feels nicely diverse. I look around the table (or the Webex screen) and see a healthy representation of different genders, ages and backgrounds. We never run out of things to talk about. Similar diversity is also evident at board level with a healthy ratio of male/female representation among our directors and board members.  As a woman in tech, self-belief and confidence are very important. Throughout my career, I have often found myself sitting in a meeting with just male peers or senior colleagues. It can be easy as a female to feel outnumbered in these situations, but, I have never allowed this situation to rob me of my confidence. We need to remember that at the end of the day, we are all people with our own thoughts and insecurities. What is important is what we have to say and what information or knowledge we can add to discussions regardless of our gender or background. Sometimes the best discussion comes from the most diverse mix of people. HAVE YOU SEEN A CHANGE IN THE TYPES OF APPLICANTS YOU RECEIVE FOR QA POSITIONS IN RECENT TIMES? In Principality’s QA Community, we recruited quite heavily over the last 12 months, filling 9 QA vacancies in total. I am pleased that we had a diverse group of applicants over the last year. More diverse than maybe compared to 2 or 3 years ago which was great to see. We also recently started our very first Test Engineering Academy in Principality, offering 3 positions to graduates or candidates seeking a career change into Test/QA. We received a really diverse range of applicants through FinTech Wales and Cardiff and Vale College so it’s great to see that more and more people are being drawn to a career in tech. IF YOU COULD GIVE ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHO’S THINKING ABOUT MAKING A CAREER CHANGE INTO TECH/ TESTING WHAT WOULD IT BE? Nowadays there are amazing Academy opportunities out there for people looking to pursue a career in tech who don’t necessarily have a technical background. As mentioned, we recently connected with FinTechWales and Cardiff and Vale College and found 13 great candidates that joined Principality’s Dev and Test Engineering Academy. Have a look at this interesting story here from one of our new joiners: Golfer to Coder. Collaboration, communication skills and relationship-building skills are important for whatever area of tech you end up in and there are some great webinars available. I do like a Ted Talk and I will never tire of the leadership lesson from a dancing guy. FINALLY, ARE THERE ANY QUOTES/MANTRAS/WORDS OF WISDOM THAT YOU’D LIKE TO SHARE WITH OUR WOMEN ROCKERS? “Above all, be the heroine of your life, not the victim.” – Nora Ephron  I feel strongly about the power of believing in yourself. So, I like those quotes that make me feel strong and confident. I often think that confidence in your own ability is half the recipe for a successful career. The other half is what everyone has to figure out individually.   I think a career will find you if you look after yourself and analyse your own ambitions. You need different things at different stages of your life. What is important to you when you are 20, might not be important anymore when you are 35. Always take time to reflect on your career aspirations and balance these carefully with your mental health and physical well-being.  Sometimes opportunities come along that weren’t part of the plan. In my case, moving to a different country for love. Take a chance. Sometimes a sideward step instead of an upwards step can be the right move. You’ll still learn something new doing this and who knows what opportunities it might lead to.    Thanks, Anita you rock 🤘 Interview by Sam Miller